paint issue

[joe234]

Hi new here...unfortunately coming with a problem first. I am a general contractor who does all my own painting.

Painted two homes late last summer/early fall with Valspar Durumax. The first time I have used this product. One was a re-paint and one was new construction.

The re-paint was hardie siding and fir soffits and porch ceilings. The existing paint was a dupont latex exterior flat paint. The house was cleaned with Jo-Max, rinsed, and then two coats of the Durumax exterior flat were applied. The temperature during the day was about 60-65F and the nights where 40-45F. The weather was dry for application and several days after. THe paint was brushed on siding and rolled on soffits.

The second job was a new construction. The siding was cedar and the soffits where again a veneer fir. One coat of durumax was applied before install and the final coat was applied after installation. The paint was brushed on siding and rolled on soffits. The temperature and conditions were similar to the first scenario.

This week I recieved a call back and went over to the jobs. It has been almost 6 months before this started happening. All the siding and vertical elements look great but the soffits and porch ceilings are all showing thick white cloudy build up. It looks like efflorescence on concrete. I contacted Valspar and sent them pictures this was the response I recieved:

"It appears this problem is called frosting. This can occur on any paint color but it is less noticeable on white and light tinted colors. It looks like a salt substance on the surface. This forms mostly in protected areas such as (eaves and open porch ceilings). These areas do not receive the cleansing action of rain, dew and other moisture. The application of dark-colored paint over a paint or primer containing calcium carbonate extender is sometimes the cause. The best remedy is to remove frosting by wire brushing masonry or sanding the wood surface, rinse, then apply an alkyd-based primer before adding a coat of the paint. This information is from our Corporate Office."

I applied this product following the instructions. I did not apply a primer before using the product and the previous latex paint was not doing this so there explanation is bunk. Are they actually saying there paint needs to be "cleansed" by water periodically after it is applied???Any thoughts appreciated.

[House Painting Toronto]

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[Jason@API]

(03-11-2011 07:46 AM)joe234 Wrote:  Hi new here...unfortunately coming with a problem first. I am a general contractor who does all my own painting.

Painted two homes late last summer/early fall with Valspar Durumax. The first time I have used this product. One was a re-paint and one was new construction.

The re-paint was hardie siding and fir soffits and porch ceilings. The existing paint was a dupont latex exterior flat paint. The house was cleaned with Jo-Max, rinsed, and then two coats of the Durumax exterior flat were applied. The temperature during the day was about 60-65F and the nights where 40-45F. The weather was dry for application and several days after. THe paint was brushed on siding and rolled on soffits.

The second job was a new construction. The siding was cedar and the soffits where again a veneer fir. One coat of durumax was applied before install and the final coat was applied after installation. The paint was brushed on siding and rolled on soffits. The temperature and conditions were similar to the first scenario.

This week I recieved a call back and went over to the jobs. It has been almost 6 months before this started happening. All the siding and vertical elements look great but the soffits and porch ceilings are all showing thick white cloudy build up. It looks like efflorescence on concrete. I contacted Valspar and sent them pictures this was the response I recieved:

"It appears this problem is called frosting. This can occur on any paint color but it is less noticeable on white and light tinted colors. It looks like a salt substance on the surface. This forms mostly in protected areas such as (eaves and open porch ceilings). These areas do not receive the cleansing action of rain, dew and other moisture. The application of dark-colored paint over a paint or primer containing calcium carbonate extender is sometimes the cause. The best remedy is to remove frosting by wire brushing masonry or sanding the wood surface, rinse, then apply an alkyd-based primer before adding a coat of the paint. This information is from our Corporate Office."

I applied this product following the instructions. I did not apply a primer before using the product and the previous latex paint was not doing this so there explanation is bunk. Are they actually saying there paint needs to be "cleansed" by water periodically after it is applied???Any thoughts appreciated.

Joe,

It's been nearly 9 months since you posted here, sorry it's taken me so long to find this forum so that I could respond sooner.

With hopes you might return to acknowledge my response, I'll go ahead and give my own experience with hopes it can help you solve the puzzle for future projects.

I had a repaint of the same color that did the same thing about 2 years ago. The problem showed up in about the same amount of time as yours did after application. The funny thing is, I used Duration Exterior flat (Primer in one product) from Sherwin Williams. It was also a dark green color. A difference to our situations is that my issue was on the siding (cedar), not in the eves but it was the upper portion where eves protect the siding more. SW's concluded it to be a "frosting" effect and may have to do with the previous application and not cleaning effectively. Just because you didn't see it on the house before or during your prep (I didn't), doesn't mean it didn't exist. I ended up spot priming with an alkyd primer and repainting those areas. SW reimbursed me for materials, even though they didn't have to. It was a Customer satisfaction issue. The customer seen it as a paint issue, so SW was more than willing to play along with the HO for a couple gallons of paint. No, loss and SW has a good rep.

There was no real concluding resolve as to how this calcium issue arrives. You just have to oil prime and move on.

BTW, this kind of issue is not common and rarely happens. It took 4 years before I ever seen it. A simple fix and onto the next job.

Hope that helps.

J

[EthanJoshua]

Thanks for the great idea. This is the very useful information about the painting. I'm so happy know about this.

[Cal]

(10-20-2011 05:19 AM)Jason@API Wrote:  I had a repaint of the same color that did the same thing about 2 years ago. The problem showed up in about the same amount of time as yours did after application. The funny thing is, I used Duration Exterior flat (Primer in one product) from Sherwin Williams. It was also a dark green color. A difference to our situations is that my issue was on the siding (cedar), not in the eves but it was the upper portion where eves protect the siding more. SW's concluded it to be a "frosting" effect and may have to do with the previous application and not cleaning effectively. Just because you didn't see it on the house before or during your prep (I didn't), doesn't mean it didn't exist. I ended up spot priming with an alkyd primer and repainting those areas. SW reimbursed me for materials, even though they didn't have to. It was a Customer satisfaction issue. The customer seen it as a paint issue, so SW was more than willing to play along with the HO for a couple gallons of paint. No, loss and SW has a good rep.

There was no real concluding resolve as to how this calcium issue arrives. You just have to oil prime and move on.

BTW, this kind of issue is not common and rarely happens. It took 4 years before I ever seen it. A simple fix and onto the next job.

Hope that helps.

J

Valspar and Sherwin Williams both wrong giving you both false info.

Same thing happened to me several years ago.

Used Dark Brown Flat exterior paint. Only taking a couple weeks of light rain, drying back out, homeowner called me back to take a look. Neither Valspar nor Sherwin-Williams has an inferior product, Nor Kwal-Howell, which I used on this one. My rep and his boss came out, and quickly determined after submitting this sample to Kwal's lab for analysis, is it's the mineral deposits in our rain, leaving water marks, such as a ring from a wet glass on a table. This is why exterior paints are generally made in a Satin finish, allowing moisture to roll off like water off a duck's back.

If anyone specifies using Flat exterior paint on their home here in Colorado, I warn them before, you may not like what you see after a few showers.

[TomKinley]

This is actually a great about the painting of house. The best home painting is necessary for our home. It gives new and pretty looks of our home.

[EthanJoshua]

There a two basic types of exterior paint - latex and Alkyd enamel paint. I like Alkyd enamel paint. Thanks for share your informative post.

[Cal]

(12-01-2011 05:40 PM)EthanJoshua Wrote:  There a two basic types of exterior paint - latex and Alkyd enamel paint. I like Alkyd enamel paint. Thanks for share your informative post.

Thanks EthanJoshua, can you explain why you like Alkyd enamel better?

[Jason@API]

(12-01-2011 06:25 PM)Cal Wrote:  

(12-01-2011 05:40 PM)EthanJoshua Wrote:  There a two basic types of exterior paint - latex and Alkyd enamel paint. I like Alkyd enamel paint. Thanks for share your informative post.

Thanks EthanJoshua, can you explain why you like Alkyd enamel better?

I dunno, it was such a strange response and nothing really to do with the OP... Sometimes I wonder if these guys know English...

[Cal]

(12-02-2011 02:54 AM)Jason@API Wrote:  I dunno, it was such a strange response and nothing really to do with the OP... Sometimes I wonder if these guys know English...

lol khym. Seriously, I'm looking forward to EthanJoshua's answer to my question, having me :confused:, feeling just the opposite, I Really would like EJ's to explain his comment.